I don’t see the edge thing as a “theory.” It’s very obvious and blatant in life. Most of the guys I mentioned, (especially the ones I endorsed) have good points to teach. On top of that, in their personal presentations, they have an edge that allows them to stand out from the rest of the crowd.

There were two conditions for the list of people I mentioned above:

A. I had to have spent some time with them personally.

B. They have to be somewhat successful in dating girls.

There are a lot of “Dating Gurus” but if they did not meet BOTH of those conditions, they were omitted from the list.

Sounds like you’re doing and have gotten over the programming quite a bit.

Cameron

1. The whole ‘looks dont matter’ debate: Personally I think looks (especially physique, skin and general healthiness) make a HUGE difference to how attractive you are to most girls. And, actually, to how you feel about yourself (which is obviously key, too). Its like ‘no shit sherlock’ but you’re right that the gurus down play this because they want money from ugly overweight people, too. Thing is, many people (like me) improve their looks/physique at the same time as their ‘game’ and with two or more variables changing its hard to tell what is making the difference, often times.

2. The fact that many gurus who claim to be successful often have conflicting advice which can be a real mind-f**k if you’re looking for direction. This makes the ‘edge’ theory attractive because it does indicate that the essence of attraction is about *standing out* from the crowd, while still being cool (i.e. standing out in a good way). As opposed to specific ways of doing that.

So, does this mean the gurus are snake-oil salesmen? Well, perhaps, in some cases. But without their advice and blogs I would never, ever have had the imagination or developed the belief system that has allowed me to really think critically about, and apply, the basic themes that most of the gurus agree on (even if they manifest them in different ways).

Basically, after 18-24 months of immersion in the community I’ve kind of entered a ‘Zen’ period now where I’ve learnt what things to ‘let go’ off and stick the handful of *key* things which have given me the confidence and coolness to attract women, *recognise* it when it happens, and have the confidence to act on it.

This also confirms something that I suspected when I read “The Game”: that Neil Strauss is passive-aggressive. And it makes sense that a P-A person would be a proponent of indirect approach.

You’re very right about that. For some reason, community people think “Game” is pulling the right sequence of DHVs, negs and NLP out of your ass.

What’s obvious to most people in real life becomes lost in seduction advice.

——

Chriswirth, email me and I’ll give you his information. There is a caveat however. What he is going to preach to you will be completely different than what he actually does himself. What he really does is what I described in the edge section.

If you really are into porn participants, hookers, and prostitutes, then you may want to look into getting involved in that realm in some capacity. (Even if it’s finding your way to those type of house parties.)
However, be careful, what you wish for, my man.

Take care

On a side note – do you know if Johnny Porn as his own blog or contact information? I’m into the same type of women and have pulled a few, would like to contact this particular PUA.

Cheers

And this really hit home:

“I am fairly convinced that there are men who get laid despite their antics. That meaning that what they consider ‘Game’ is something annoying women are willing to overlook because they’re interested in them for other reasons.”

Not only have I witnessed this myself, personally, with so many self-proclaimed gurus (that are being worshiped all the time by people reading this blog, most likely), but I’d take it as far as these same guys being so delusional sometimes that they advise everyone else they “teach” and charge money from to do the same, assuming their “gimmick” (whatever they think they do that gets them the girls) is actually something that would work on everyone else.

Anyone familiar with that delusional creature that calls himself Dimitri the Lover around this ‘hood would know what I’m talking about, for example. Preaching to guys that calling women “elegant” right off the bat and being ballsy with their efforts to get them into bed that night has different effects from person to person. For Dimitri himself, it’s rather easy to do anything and get away with some ugly skank’s phone number, as he’s already 6′5″ tall, long haired well dressed decent looking creature who has a lot of balls and confidence (and no shame… to the point where it’s really annoying and creepy most of the time, but regardless). You throw that advice into anyone else’s lap, and it becomes a ticking time bomb.

Same thing goes for guys like Brant and Zan – good looking guys right off the bat with enough interesting stories to tell (pulling you into their own reality) that they really don’t have to run any “game” whatsoever and women throw themselves at them (since there is an obvious lack of interesting men like that in their lives).

And the last point, but not the least, is what EVERY SINGLE Guru fails to mention to their market, students, etc… it’s ALL a numbers game.

They all get rejected as much as anyone else.

But most of the gurus talk to a lot of women as part of their “lifestyle” (and/or work, while teaching guys) and they do end up with more women than a regular Joe Blow.

If you’ve ever hung out with Mystery, Zan, anyone else off the list above – you would’ve noticed that they get blown out by regular looking girls who are just not into it, not interested in what they have to offer… and it’s all simply a numbers game. Regardless of what the gimmick, edge or angle they would like you to think they have going for them (pre-planned set of routines, some fancy shmancy Casanova-like romantic speech, etc)…

Once you get comfortable with that fact, and stop trying to emulate them 100% and get to their “perceived” level of success, you’ll start doing much better with women around you… ;)