The Dark Side of The Seduction Community


The Dark Side!

In the first part of this article, we talked about ways the seduction community can be helpful to a person.  It provides a reference point and gives people a road to follow.  It provides a path whereas before the person was driving blind.

Giving men a starting point is great.  It’s helpful!  So then, what’s the problem?  Problems arise when what started as a venture to enable you to become better in attracting women suddenly becomes a religion.

It’s when someone has become so mechanical and robotic that everything in that person’s mind is a tactic or socially calculated move.  What started as a frame of reference is now an obsession.  The person no longer enjoys the interaction and camaraderie within a group of people, but he starts examining it like some neurotic mess.  Instead of having fun, he is thinking, “Who has higher social value here?  What DHV should I use?  Was that a neg the person just used on me?  No wait, it sound more like cocky/funny.”

Then it even gets more extreme and the Seduction Community robot becomes really easy to spot in any public setting.  You may make, [what would appear to most people]  to be an innocent request.  You ask a guy politely, “Hey man, would you mind passing over that bottle of ketchup?”

He is now caught in a whirlwind of strategic mess. He is like a cow caught in a Kansas Tornado spiraling down.  His thoughts are scrambled:  “He just asked me to do something.  If I do it, I would not be Alpha.  Alpha males don’t listen to people.  They give orders.  Passing over the Ketchup bottle would be a beta thing to do.  Maybe I’ll spill the Ketchup and that will be a DHV.”

And all you did was politely ask for the Ketchup.

That guy is now a complete mess.  Everything is a tactic.  He also assumes that of other people.  “She just told me that her sister is sick. She has the swine flu.   What does this mean?  Should I neg or DHV?  Is this a test?  Maybe she is testing to see if I am a real man.  What would Mystery do? What would Neil Strauss do?”

Sometimes, the answer is: Her sister is really sick, asshole.  Get over it.  It’s not a devious plot against you.

If you are not entrenched in seduction community, then you may read this and think it’s a joke. Surely, I am exaggerating to make a point.  The sad thing is that I am not.  Chances are likely that you’re bound to come across someone who resembles what I described above.  They’re in every town and village these days.

When what started as an endeavor to enrich your life turns to an obsessive path of external validation through the approval of random women as well as sex addiction, you’ve ventured deep into the Dark side of the Seduction community.  The adjectives that describe you can fall into a various range:  Weird, insincere, mechanical, contrived, sex-addict, and more….

You’re now so fucked, and you don’t even know it.

This is when I have weird conversations with people that are creepy to the rest of the world.  One of my acquaintance here in Los Angeles who is deeply entrenched in the seduction community turns to me and says, “You know, I find that if I refrain from masturbating, I have more motivation to go out and approach girls.  It helps to push me to get out there more.”

I reply:

“Really?  But you just told me you were already seeing a couple of girls, and you have 3 dates set with girls you met on various online personals.”

He tells me, “Yeah, but I still find that if I hold out on masturbating, I have more motivation to go sarging and approach even more girls.”

That’s like saying, I have a fridge full of food, but I am going to purposely starve myself, so I have more motivation to go food-shopping at the supermarket.

This is when a person has completely crossed to the dark side.  He now thinks of approaching women as something he “Must” do at all costs.  It’s a sport.  He cannot remember how he got into it, why he does it, or what his purpose is. It’s just that he feels better about himself momentarily upon doing getting a few phone numbers, or “Laying a girl.”

Another guy I know, who even taught for a while, (who I no longer keep in touch with. btw) now cruises through Westwood where UCLA students hang out.  3 to 4 hours a day, he trolls the streets and various venues seeking out Asian girls to bring to his apartment.  (These are girls referred to as “FOBs” or “Fresh Off the Boat” even by other Asians.)   Some days, he succeeds, and some days he does not.  Yet, he is out there, walking the streets of Westwood every day seeking new blood, hunting down unsuspecting Asian women who speak broken down English.

I’ve been down that road of being an approaching maniac. (Although I was never as fucked up as the guy who is Stalking the streets of Westwood as we speak!  He is one of the worst cases I’ve ever seen.)    When you’re in it, you can’t see that it’s just slightly a bit weird.  When you step away from it, the picture becomes more clear.

What’s the solution?  Every person has to figure out his/her own purpose and passions in life.  Like I said in another blog entry: The seduction community is like Radiation.  Sometimes it’s necessary to fix your ailment.  Too much of it can destroy a person.

Too much of this stuff is how you get men so obsessed and paranoid that they ask the farcical questions I mentioned recently in another blog post.  Questions like:   Is it a test when she tells you her sister has cancer?  This is when person has lost perspective of normal socialization and has become engulfed in seduction advice.


In conclusion, refer to the old saying, “Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.”  The Seduction Community has many faults, which I point out repeatedly and often on this Blog.  However, it’s also a good tool for providing a reference point.  Too often I see outsiders bash the community with an even worse alternative.

Seriously, you’re going to criticize an opinion opener, but provider an alternative that is plain fucking creepy such as “Seductive Reasoning?”  At least, asking women for an opinion as to “Who lies more, men or women?” does not repulse, disgust and repel them away from you.

The issues emerge, when what started as an attempt to become more attractive, becomes a full fledged religion.  When your entire life revolves around discussing DHVs, Tests, Negs, higher/lower value, you’re seriously screwed and you don’t even know it.

What’s the solution?  Take advice from coaches whose advice make sense to you.  Too often I see men in their 30s and 40s taking bootcamps from some outfit that has hired a 22 year old kid to teach them how to live their life by having a nice routine stack and wearing peacock clothing.  Well, I don’t actually “see” it often.  I get emails afterwards, or hear the horror stories when I do a phone consult with a client.

In the quest for dating mastery, it’s important to keep perspective.  It’s essential to not lose common sense.  Unfortunately,  in the zeal for pickup artistry, too many men lose sight of what made them successful in the first place.

Don’t jump from method to method.  Find what jives with you and practice that.  Be willing to apply yourself and remember your purpose.  In this case, the purpose of why you even sought advice: To have more success in your dating life, not to become entangled in some modern day cultish lifestyle.

A good teacher who knows what he is teaching has to understand where to start you off and give you that point of reference. Grandiose schemes won’t do it.  Similarly, telling people to “Just accept the way you are and profess your love is not going to cut it.”  Just as telling men to cruise through supermarkets asking, “Hey, how is the Tuna? What kind of a sandwich do you recommend” Is not going to really help the person much.  Most of the guys who seek dating advice have already tried doing what I just mentioned and it hasn’t worked for them.

That’s why they found their way to the “Seduction Community” in the first place!!!

For this reason, the few dating teachers I do recommend are normally guys who have come up the ranks within the community.  They are the guys who have a good understanding of attraction and dating, and can provide a good reference point.  On the same note, they realize the negative aspects of it, especially since they have been through it themselves.

On the same token, that person who is a competent teacher has to be able to provide you with the essentials that you need and not instill a religion or doctrine in your mind.  If you ask him extensive questions about “Negs” and is “Reading a book a DHV?” and “If she says she has to put gas in her car, is she testing me?”….. He ought to be able to slap you sill across the face to wake you up.

  • If you’re going to pay money for a bootcamp/workshop/ or to meet someone for personal coaching, then you want someone who understands both sides of the equation.

There are very few guys who can diagnose your issues from both a MICRO and a MACRO View.  Both are important.  Example of a Micro-view:  Let’s say you have experience the following pattern: You talk to women, and things are going seemingly well, but after 5 minutes, they always seem to fall apart.  Well, there are 3 or 4 main reasons as to why that is occurring and an experienced coach will pinpoint your problem.  It’s like being a mechanic for social interactions. That coach knows how to help you fix that broken piece in your interactions.

On that note, that coach has to understand how to help you socialize, fit in, and create a worthy lifestyle from a macro perspective, looking at the bigger picture from a bird’s eye view.  This is the the Macro-view. It’s creating an over all lifestyle where you are able to have a large social circle, and have people generally like you and want to include you in their parties, get-togethers and various activities.

You may not admit it publicly but you know that you’d enjoy people calling you to invite you to events.  ”Hey, we’re having a casual BBQ close to the beach.  Come by, have a few beers!” Or “We’re playing a game of flag football this weekend with the guys.  No super athletes in there, just a fun game.  Come and make it.”

The latter part is what community engulfed dating teachers miss.  They spent so much time trying to “Sarge” and prey on their environments, that they become dubbed as “Weird” and receive the unflattering label of “There is something really off about that dude.”

Hence, a good coach has to understand both sides.  He must be able to correct your technical errors and help your interactions while enabling you to have a more pleasant overall social life where you enjoy social gatherings, parties, with other people.

If you’re curious to know who I’d recommend for personal coaching, you’d probably know if you read this Blog often.  Whom do I recommend?  Obviously I recommend Me!  Aside from myself,  I’d recommend Sinn, Stephen Nash, and Swinggcat who doesn’t do personal coaching.  (By the way, these guys aren’t paying me any money to say this.) That’s about it.

80% of the guys teaching live workshops and bootcamps out there currently cannot help you.  I am sorry I can’t sugar coat it any better, but there is not much they can do for ya.  They may help you marginally, but you’re not paying $1500 for marginal help.   In some cases, they’re weird robotic people who’ll do their best to recreate the same in you.  Becoming like them generally equates to not having ANY male friends or (females ones for that matter.)

Hence, choose carefully.  20% of the guys teaching workshops are qualified and I can only personally recommend a handful.  : If you’re going to get some help in improving your success in dating and attracting women, choose a coach who can help improve your lifestyle, but one who understands social interactions well enough to give you a reference point!

That’s the key to having balance in your growth in this arena.

(PS. Stay tuned for another unique short story I’ve recently written…)


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