The Guru Epidemic – Self Help Industry- Part 2
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In the last article, The Guru Epidemic, I talked about the behavior of most Gurus and their Modus Operandi. Someone unfamiliar, (or even familiar) with self-help gurus and teachers of enlightenment may natually wonder: WHY do people take refuge in gurus?
- SO WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE GO TO GURUS?
Come on Cameron. The picture you paint is not very flattering. Why would people worship these individuals?
Well, I’ll share a quick story that may help you see this dynamic from another perspective.
A gentleman by the name of David DeAngelo has been giving Dating advice online since about 2001. He has countless DVDs, seminars, and audio products on dating advice. You probably have heard of him. 2 years ago, “David DeAngelo” decided to give seminars on marketing under his real name Eben Pagen.
Yet, some of the same people who attended his dating seminars, STILL chose to willingly attend his marketing seminars though they had zero interest in learning about Internet Marketing A very analytical friend of mine was about to lose his mind. As though he were “Rainman” on uppers, he kept repeating, “But I don’t get it! They’re looking for dating advice. This is a marketing seminar! Why are they paying 5000 Dollars to see this guy speak about marketing when they want DATING advice? Why, why, why???”
To which I replied:
“You’re not getting it emotionally. That’s Daddy up there! That’s their father on stage!!! That’s why they’re there, a chance to see daddy one more time”
There you have it! The guru relationships. Most subjects, specially in the DATING FIELD, (I don’t know if this’d apply in the financial-advice field for example) are NOT EVEN SEEKING ADVICE. THEY’RE LOOKING FOR A FATHER amidst these gurus.
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The over-bearing guru who has all of the answers represents a father-figure most guys at that seminar have not had. Maybe they had fathers who were meek, or perhaps their dad was never around. In these modern times, people are missing father figures, and hence, they seek to fill that void through finding gurus who can tell them what to do, give them direction, and tough love. (To be fair, David D never signed up for this. However, there are plenty of “Gurus who relish in taking this role and do take advantage of it).
I think if you had a father who was a masculine figure, a man’s man, who spent time with you when you were a kid, you’d have a hard time ending up in the guru-worshipping circles. You could even get sucked in for a short while perhaps, but you’d snap out of it quickly. A lack of a strong caring father figure is a common trend you’d find as the common element in the guru worhippers.
I should add that I am not condemning anyone for going to a seminar to improve on anything, whether it’s financial advice, or how to be a better Tennis player weekend crashcourse. Being progressive is a great attribute. However, when the knack for being for being progressive is replaced by a need for a father figure/guru who influences your every decision, you’ve crossed on over into a slippery slope.
Would you like to be horrified for a bit? This will only take you 10 minutes and save your hours of time from having to watch another shitty “Saw” movie. Stick your head in “Tony Robbins Forums” for 10 minutes and be sure to have a vomit-bucket close by. You’ll find people who can’t figure out what to do for exercise, or what to eat for breakfast, or how to tie on their shoelaces without Tony Robins telling them the proper way to do it. Again, Tony seems like a nice guy. I don’t know that he set out to do this, but it’s bound to happen.
If you happen to be one of these people and can identify with the above people, then maybe you should look into getting your issues fixed. Most people assume “Gurus” to be a notch, (or two or three notches) above average normal people. The ultimate irony is that most gurus are a notch (or two or three) BELOW normal average people. (For reasons mentioned above, and trust me, I’ve spent enough time with self proclaimed gurus.)
If you want to learn to better social skills, and learn more about attracting women, then yes, learn from me. Get my audio course. If you want to read more good stuff, then learn from “Stephen Nash” or “Sinn”. If you want to learn the piano, then hire a piano-teacher, and if you want to learn to play basketball better, then hire the proper basketball coach.
There are some people who don’t sign up to be a guru, but end up being one by default because they’re such strong masculine figures. My buddy Steve P. probably falls under that category but it doesn’t change the fact that he does great work to create change through hypno-therapy. Steve is also a guy you can hang with, talk about movies, business, or MMA. There are rare exceptions as I mentioned.
If you’re looking for a guru to be your father, then you’ll have to address that on your own. I have enough understanding of social behaviors and dynamics to take full advantage of people seeking fathers, but it’s not my style. It’s not who I am. I’ll leave that to the guys who have all of the answers, who occasionally carry an Asian assistant behind them. (I’m telling you: Look for the crony walking behind.)
Then how will you know when you have arrived? How will you know when you’ve had enough seminars to become enlightened? How is anyone ever suppose to really know? You know when you know! (A truly guru-esque answer, btw. Thank you!) You know when you’ve arrived at that point when you know what want to do, and now it’s a matter of doing it. You start exploring the how, and by that I mean, you start exploring what specific actions you have to take.
Study those who are successful in that endeavor. They know what they wanted to do, and then started doing it. Sometimes, it took them a while to get their act together, and if they’re famous, there maybe a mug-shot of them on some Internet website just for laughs. Sometimes it takes a few years to figure out your “Stuff” and along the way, you may stop at a few seminars, and read some books. You’ll figure out and you’ll know you’ve arrived when you know that you don’t need any gurus anymore….
I believe that gurus are only building on the same psychological principles that were started 1000s of years ago with the advents of prophets. Whether it was Moses, Jesus or Muhammad, these individuals recognized that probably a good 80% of the population desperately needed a figurehead to give them answers, without which, they could not find purpose! (This theme of Purpose & Identity is so ever recurring.) So these clever individuals took on that role. Seriosuly, could you other wise sell that story about a guy living inside a whale? But let’s get back to the modern day gurus…
Ultimately, you learn that no human being has ALL of the answers. A little spirituality is good, but still, no person (or team of persons) has all of the answers. Those who achieve great things have a drive that comes from within and they have a certain strength that they’re going to push forward. This sense of achievement is not always material or financial. Sometimes, it’s a simple story about an individual who had to learn to walk again after being told by doctors that he would not be able to ever walk again following a tragic accident.
It’s having the confidence in yourself that you’re going to get it done, and you shall find a way to do so. Along the way, you’re going to learn a few things, including things about yourself, and certainly, there will be people/family/friends/coaches/teachers/professors who will contribute to this endeavor.
Or so that is my finding.
Cameron
U mentioned Sinn as a good teacher.
He wrote an e-mail, not so long ago, that he wanted a marketing campaign manager, who’d work for 10-20 hours, and there was whole list of qualifications.
As to what one would gain from applying to such a job, he wrote
“A primary benefit of this position will be direct access to one
of the top dating coaches in the world. So a portion of your
“payment” will be by way of Sinns of Attraction products and
coaching from Sinn (both telephone coaching and live training).
Monetary compensation may also be available depending on your
experience and contributions. ”
So “primary benefit” will be coaching and products from Sinn. :)
I think this is hysterical cuz it reminds me how papa and tyler were able to have guys doing free shit for them, hoping to get pickup advice.
Doesn’t your buddy Sinn just want “free labour” like the guru with chinese assistant?
Michael,
Your comment has nothing to do with the particular post above.
Regarding Sinn, I’ll answer this one time man because different guys ask me that question:
It’s not uncommon for people to barter services. You’ll see someone who is a personal trainer trade an hour of his services with a massage therapist or a chiropractor, etc…
You may not like Sinn personally, but you can’t deny that his article (such as the recent Queen bees, wannabes & club girl psychology) are helpful.
Similarly, there may be guys out there, who for whatever reason, don’t like me. I am still certain that articles on this blog (Leading the Sexual Chemistry, how to develop CHARISMA, CHARM) will help guys regardless of how they like me.
The gurus with the Asian-Assistants sell themselves as these mythical creatures, that if you hang around them, then through osmosis, you too shall become mythical. This is even more blatant in self-help teachings where gurus are almost forming what is tantamount to a cult. They’re selling fluff and dangling carrots in front of people, trying to pretend to be their fathers.
As far as I can tell, Sinn doesn’t sell himself that way. Would it be any different if he were a kickboxing coach who offered to give you one-on-one lessons in trade for your services?
Fair trade is the point. I also don’t care to be a guru. I am fairly confident that my articles/findings regarding Dating, Attraction, & Social-Psychology speak for themselves. Other articles are for entertainment purposes. If you think they benefit you in some, then enjoy reading them.
take care,
Cameron
Ps. Would love to hear from anyone who has at some point been sucked into “Scientology, Born-Again Christians,” and any other sort of enlightenment type outfits.
Hey Cam
Love the article.
I was raised catholic if that counts. I was raise to feel guilty for having sex before marriage, not allowed to date until I was 16 and really it was 18 when I moved out when I had the freedom to be myself. I could go on about the negative aspects of such parenting but I digress…. Love my parents, it’s just who they are.
A self confident man is not produced through illogical guilt driven philosophies of life.
I started to realize bullshit at about 13 years of age. So I had to relearn many things and a couple of those were the art of attraction and relationships development. Which is really self confidence, social calibration, and truth/honesty.
I think gurus and leaders of religious institutions are all feeding of the natural needs of belonging, purpose, and emotional security. They also feel the need to help people and to be respected. Maybe I don’t know the psychology behind the roots of that behavior all that well.
Yet, Even if their only purpose of being a guru is purely for selfish reasons. There not bad people, just victims of their circumstance, they cope well to a sick society. Hell they may even be a benefit to many peoples lives.
What Ive learned and what I tell others is to trust your own judgement, question everything, and learn as much as possible. Thats what we are doing on this site.
…..I could never have an assistant, are kidding me, any respectable man would at least pay an assistant a fair wage. A noble man would teach him how to become a confident man who thinks for himself.
I like Cameron’s blog over others such as Mystery’s because he actually teaches how to become better person, not how to act like one. It’s becoming more confident through self awareness by learning the psychology of human interaction / attraction.
Thats my rant…
Hey Cameron are you familiar with Neil Strauss, he seems to be your type of guy.
Hi Cameron,
The kickboxing coach does not work for some guy exclusively or halg of the work week, he does work with other customers via his job.
Here on this specific job (marketing campaign manager) the only guy u work with is Sinn. For 10-20 hours a week. That’s half of a work week spent with no cash pay, only dating advice.
Personal trainer might ex change an hour for service, but then the rest of the time he gains cash.
Considering most guys who seek dating advice have problems with fashion, they are overweight, poor hygiene, etc, he might be better of to get a real cash paying job, and improve his life while buying solid dating products.
I like your blog posts, can’t say the same for Sinn. The way he is promoting TheFader, Mehow and Gambler, these guys are not good. My bro took a bootcamp with Gambler, and is like “yeah, Gambler is not getting laid”. Gambler didn’t even go infield.
The way Sinn promotes Brad P, where we actually disclosed his real identity and there is picture of him having a threesome with ugly (!) girls. He is getting laid, but nothing average Joe couldn’t get laid with.
I find these questionable.
P.S
In the community the infamous cult is on RSDnation. The guys read Eckhart Tolle, and want to be positive and unreactive. Anything by RSD’s competitors is deleted, “non-positive posts” are deleted, critical thinking is discouraged.
Interesting thing is happening on Barry’s forum, they start censoring information and deleting threads for the sake of looking good.
Totally unrelated, off topic and you might not even care. I also never understood why you think Sinn offers such great advice either. I don’t doubt he might be a great guy and your friend but when I took a look at his advice I cringed. It seems world’s away from the advice you offer.
Michael – If you subscribe to several seduction guru mailings you’ll quickly realize they’re all in bed with each other. It’s the “who can plug more for commission” game. If you’d follow the trail of recommendations from one to another you’d probably buy all the dating products that exist in the world. I’ve seen some really shameful things even, where Guru A (accidentally?) sends out mail grilling Guru B big time, only to be plugging Guru B hours later.
I’ve only listened to Barry Kirkey’s show a couple of times but a big reason I loved it is that this guy puts the Gurus to shame non-mercifully.
Again, great article. While in Part 1 there wasn´t much new to me, the observation that the demand of gurus comes from men looking for father figures seems pretty conclusive.
Jerry,
You make good points about giving people a sense of belonging and emotional security. I’d add that they also create attachment and dependence. When an individual has a set back, it’s because she/he didn’t believe enough, and if she/he experiences success, it was because of the guru’s influence.
Glad you’re enjoying the blog man.
Regarding Neil Strauss: You’re either a relatively new reader to the blog or you’re just fucking with me. lol Neil Strauss is about as much my kind of a guy, as Jason from the Friday the 13th movies was the kind of guy for summer camp participants..
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Michael & Mojito,
I guess we’ll have to disagree regarding Sinn’s advice. He has an excellent technical understanding of social-interactions and he is good at explaining it.
As for Cult Nation, agreed. They seem to be running something that has all the signs of being a cult, but then again, in this particular niche of self-help industry, there had to be a cult sooner or later. lol
Cam, you’re a funny guy. Everything can be explain using the “daddy’s complex” lol. Why does women allow men to treat them like shit? oh, they have a daddy’s complex. Why did pua allows the guru to take their money and tell them what to do?
Daddy complex haha
Hey,
I have just briefly read through your articles dissecting the Guru problem. I have to admit I fell victim to one, long story short because of a girl. It helped me but also shot me in the foot.
I learned some behaviors which led me to have power in certain situations, but I had to pay dearly in the end in self-respect and time and money.
With the help of my buddies healthy-skepticism, the facade is easy to see through. I won’t mention the “guru” who I am speaking of, but it is as bad as having an addiction to any kind of substance, illegal or otherwise. They feed on the emotion of others and the dependency of the victims, which is perpetuated by holding knowledge over others head for a hefty price of money sometimes.
For them to profit you always have to feel inadequate or are made to and I think this speaks for the cultural phenomenon that is the PUA community.
I’m glad to see you tackling more controversial subjects in the manner that you always do.
Thanks,
Josh
BWAHAHAA Neil is your type of guy according to the readers bro…
WOW..
Great post.
JS
To all you guys bashing the community that is within your right. As far as these gurus and stuff being lame or whatever I’m sure some are and I’m sure some are cool as with anything. But if you are a student bashing a guru and pointing out there flaws that is irrelevant. Is this guy getting you laid? Is this guy helping you meet great women and having sexual/romantic relationships with them? Is this guy making you more socially savvy and a magnetic guy to be around? That is what you should be worried about. If you guys arent happy with a guru then dont learn from him or stop learning from him simple as that.
As far as reading and bashing gurus it is within your right but dont lump all gurus in there. If it werent for these guys what would you guys have to get better with women? Imagine there is no community how would you get good with women? You could go out constantly and get mixed results and not undertstand where your sticking points are. You could try to befriend a natural. But again there arent many of those around its not like going to a grocery store “yeah id like to befriend a natural”. If you do can he explain thoroughly what he is doing or will he be like bro i dunno just be cool.
I understand there is a downside as there is with anything but you want to work on yourself not worrying about some guru. Dont bother yourself with the pettyness of the community because there is a lot of it be a mature man that doesnt let the pettyness bother you and focus on the goals you set out for yourself.
I dont mean to get a high horse but I had to say that.
I’d also like to clarify a statement of mine in the last post. I wasn’t wholly a victim, as I chose to spend the money and take the advice, rather than unknowing and ignorant and unwilling to find other help, in sane people.
What utterly surprises me is he continues on this day.
Josh
I think on one of barry kirkey show, gunwitch goes on details about the “authority frame”. Once you establish yourself as a dominant figure, people with weaker frame flocks to you and believe everything you say. Imagine my shock when i tried “certain community materials” and it didnt work in real life. I begin to “question my guru” and digs more info about him. The more information you know about your “guru” the less mystify you are about him. Here’s food for thought, a lot of members of forum.bodybuilding.com has 40+ lays, which is more than most pickup gurus.
Hey Cam,
Great 2-part post about gurus! Thanks for writing them because you got me thinking about part 2. What you suggested is a definite main reason why people go to gurus, and I think another is that people are just plain lazy and pussified nowadays. They are not men who are willing to face rejection, pain, and perhaps, humiliation just to get what they want.
Not sure about your childhood, most kids grow up playing video games and never physically go outside, play with more than just their fingers and thumbs on a controller. They never had to face another kid in person, literally confronting each other face to face, and sometimes, end up on both ends of giving and receiving punches. They never did get that toughening up process of growing up. So as adults, they go to their little cubicles at work, then go home with the magical thinking and expectations of a hot chick ready and waiting.
Gurus and many other programs promise answers and easy ways of bypassing what should be part of maturation process of becoming an adult. As you favorite charismatic Arnold would call these guys worshiping gurus: girlie-men!
Keep up your entertaining blog!
LoL, I must have the wrong perception of Neil Strauss. Funny metaphor…
I don’t think PUA guru’s or the industry itself will ever become mainstream. It will always be underground and cult like. I think thats part of why guys go to these gurus, its still a secret thing that no one in their mainstream lives will know what they are up to. Most people are too proud to admit they need or want help