Why 90% of Men Flunk in the Sedcution Community

Why 90% of Men Fail in the Seduction Community

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90% of men who seek dating advice do not improve much in this area!


Sad, isn’t it? That means that potentially 9 out of 10 guys reading this blog right now are frustrated and upset about the fact that they don’t meet and attract girls on a consistent basis. They’re not even looking to be players, but on the same token, they don’t much enjoy their forced celibacy either.


I seem to get more than my fair share of emails from guys who are upset about studying someone’s method or attending some workshop which didn’t really help them at all. Why guys think I am some sort of community-police, I have no idea. Perhaps it’s from reading my blog or hearing me on the Barry Kirkey Radio Show. I don’t mind the emails. Man, I can feel their frustration through the emails. It sucks.


It shouldn’t be that that way, but it is. I am going to blow the lid off why this is happening and why:

So let’s start with the success rate. 20% of guys reach some level of success and 80% remain frustrated. In this process, a strange phenomenon occurs. The former leave and the latter guys stick around.

We probably ought to define “Improvement.”? It’s normalcy in socialization, going out, meeting a few girls here and there, FLIRTING with them, date a few girls, get a girlfriend perhaps. We are not talking aspiration of becoming some silly acronym. (mpua, master-pick up artist) and so forth. Some say my 20% estimate is generous but I am sticking to it. So let’s pick out some hypothetical numbers and apply the stats:


Random Year: 10,000 guys find the seduction community of whom 2000 found success. 8000 didn’t really improve substantially. This happens on a yearly basis. In 10 Years, time, you have 80,000 guys who haven’t improved, and are still lingering around. This number keeps compounding.


Those who graduate move on with their lives. They reacclimate themselves into normal society and normal flow of things. (Why normal? Because talking about pickup incessantly and giving field reports to your buddies on a daily basis and talking new DHVs is NOT normal, especially when a guy is nearly 30 years old.)


Of the guys who do graduate, some stick around and become teachers who really know their craft. They understand the process and are able to explain it to others. It’s sort of like the Top Gun academy where if you graduated with honors, you were given the opportunity to come back and be a flight instructor. Some of those guys would include , Sinn, Stephen Nash, Swinggcat, and Barry Kirkey who does a radio show on the community now. I’d throw myself in that category. It’s important to note that none of these guys, including me, came in with commercial aspirations. We came to the community for our own self-improvement. We planned on leaving it and somehow it turned to a job. Be that as it may, a few of us are still planning to leave it in a few years.

If you’re reading this, there is a good chance you may be in the struggling part.

Why??

In order to IMPROVE IN THIS AREA OF LIFE, you have to address 2 distinct major areas.

  • Social Skills,
  • Social anxiety,

  • Addressing Social skills:

Conversational skills, ways to flirt, subcommunication, ability to socially vibe, sense of humor, story telling, social intelligence (formally referred to as calibration.,) and even Tonality and Body Language. These are the things a dating coach could help you with.

  • Addressing Social Anxiety:

Most guys experiences some forms of social anxiety, whether it’s walking around talking to people in a bar, or interacting with people at a house party full of strangers. Sometimes it comes down to a question of self-worth; a question of who you are. A guy may feel that women don’t like him, but it’s really because of his poor childhood experience with his parents. . Maybe he feels that his father or mother didn’t like him.


A dating coaching cannot help much with such issues. A woman can’t fix them either. That problem will be taken care of when he lets go. This is where the therapy comes in. Ever been to an AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) meeting? I have. I went to one to support a pal. AA people treat alcohol as though it’s some evil entity in a science fiction movie. “Set Phasers to stun! Shoot the bottle of Jack Daniels.”


Alcohol is not the problem. It never has been. It’s just a means for the alcoholic to escape his issues. It’s an escape vehicle. This is what A.A people do not understand, it seems. Similarly, many guys in the community want to use women as the escape vehicle for how they feel about themselves. That’s why it’s important to get yourself fixed in conjunction with learning the social Skills. It’s a two-prong approach.


If you suffer from massive amounts of anxiety or fears, then it might be of benefit to see a therapist. I am not a doctor and I don’t give medical advice. As for forms of therapy, I am a big proponent of Hypnotherapy. I believe it’s the most effective. The problem is it’s difficult to find good hypnotherapists. Very difficult, in fact.


If that’s not your cup of tea, then choose what you think is best for you.


Having these fears, men and women alike, try to satiate that need by trying to get validation from the opposite sex. It’s either that or they take refuge in some “Spiritual” mumbo jumbo designed to provide answers they seek. “Improve your energy field, change the color of your aura from Green to Magenta, Study more Deepak Chopra.” A 100 books by Deepak Chopra and the gang is not going to help anyone develop social skills and it probably won’t help someone get over anxieties and fear based emotions caused by trauma.


This brings us to the field of quick fixes. If you are struggling with women, I can guarantee that you have experienced some, if not ALL of these below. You’ve perhaps attended a workshop or even idolized someone you saw on TV.  Maybe you read Neil Strauss’ ode to illusions of Grandeur called, “The Game.”   Never mind the fabrications in that book.  Let’s get to the heart of the matter:

80-90% of men do not improve because of the following:

  • Quick fixes:
  • Garbage Advice

*America is the land of opportunity for the quick-fix salesman. Part of this falls on the shoulder of the consumer. Many American consumers are not vested in themselves. They won’t want to hear about going to the gym and receiving the proper nutrition. They want the pill that’ll make them lose 20 pounds in month while they eat Cheesecake and pie all day. So let’s address the various categories of terrible advice.

  • The Magic Pill advice:

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The same concept mentioned above applies to dating. The snake-oil sales guy steps in to take advantage of people’s thirst for the quick fix. This is the guy who doesn’t really understand the process and cannot really help your dating life, yet seems to release a NEW product every 4 to 6 months. I know quite a few of these guys, and unfortunately, I can’t name any names, but it’s up to you to be judicious. Next time, someone tells you “Do Nothing and lose 30 pounds in 30 days,” understand that he is full of shit. On that note, apply the same principle when someone tells you, “Get ANY GIRL You want in 5 minutes or less.”


Seriously, if you’re not willing to work on yourself, you’re not going to improve your chances of attracting women.  To Attract a Higher Quality Woman, You Must Become a Higher Quality Man. That does not happen over night. However, with a bit of work, you can improve and achieve that.  Questions is, are you dedicated?


Take a look at successful superstar athletes: People like Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are born with a gift of better genetics for athletic competition. Despite this propensity for athletic prowess, they still WORK HARDER than all of their peers.  If they’re willing to put the work, why shouldn’t you?

  • The Routine Stack teacher  (often seen peacocking.)

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This is a memorized script that you spout off to every girl you come across. I am not going to deny that it can be helpful for some beginners as training wheels. However, a “Routine Stack” is not a substitute for a personality. 10 minutes in and the guy is done because when he reverts back to himself, what is he going to be then? It’s not that the routines are evil. They can help. Just remember that they don’t create personality. Bars in big cities are full of guys who are able to talk to a woman for 10 minutes and then they got nothing left.

  • The Cool guy from high school figure:

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This is the dating coach who can’t really teach you many social skills. There are one or two good nuggets in his presentation, but fucking hey, I wouldn’t want to pay 5000 dollars for just a couple of small pieces of information. Most of the guys who come to the community are usually the intellectual types who probably were not too popular in high school. (I know I wasn’t.) They weren’t in the “in crowd” or hanging with the jocks and the football team.


Now, for 5000 dollars, they can hang with a older clone of the same cool high school guy who used to ignore them, while he runs his errands, picks up his dry cleaning and goes to the Whole Foods supermarket. It’s the price to pay to feel cool by hanging out with the snobby prick from high school. Of course, he is not going to tell you that. He’ll tell you he is helping you meet women in everyday environments such as the dry cleaners, but in reality, you’re paying for the privilege to hang out with him. 5000 Dollars to hang out and and go buy groceries at Whole Foods Supermarket with Biff Tannen.

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  • Mc Spirit, (The McDonalds of Spirituality):

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A little spirituality is good to give you peace of mind and some wisdom. However, like we do with everything else in America, we try to cash in at whatever expense. McSpirituality stores pop up everywhere and they all have the answers. At the end of the day, this McDonald movoment of Spirituality sitting on your ass watching the secret and manifesting is not going to improve your conversational skills or improve your ability to flirt with women. It’s not going to make you FUN or interesting.

I’ve come across creepy guys who tells me they watch “The Secret” 5 times a week and work on their energy fields. It’s helpful information to all of us. The guy is still creepy, except now we also know he also has no life or hobbies.


I wish that it could be that easy. I wish you could sit on your ass, watch the secret and manifest a fantastic physique. Actually, now that I think of it I don’t wish that at all. Years back, I went through a crappy period where I gained a lot of weight. I’ll spare the story for some other day, but I eventually lost that fat. How? I ate the right foods, bought the right supplements, and worked my ass off in the gym. I still have a shelf of all the books I purchased on bodybuilding, and various fitness endeavors. I got the correct information and APPLIED the knowledge.


If it were as simple as just sitting and “manifesting,” then everyone would walk around with the body of a Greek God. Let us be glad that it’s not easy.

  • The technology salesman:

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Anyone who uses the word “Technology” in his advertising, you can conclude is technologically rimming you in the ass. I’ll share a well hidden secret: People have been f*cking for millennia. They’re going to f*ck for 1000s of years to come. It’s just that our species and (All other species) depend on procreation to continue. The modern day man f*cks as did the Cro Magnon man. Well, OK, we added Astro-Glide, and flavored lube that gets hot when you blow on it. But aside from that, the process is still the same.  F*cking is F*cking.


If you hear someone using the word, “Technology” to help you attract women, run for the hills. And cover your ass while running, because if he catches up with you, he will rape you. Do you really think “Technology, ancient patterns, sophisticated algorithms help the guy below attract a woman?”

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  • Other quick fix advice that is Useless shit:

Feel good advice by guys who read self-help books. This guy has read Eckhart Tolle a 1000 times over and now is regurgating it in the dating field.

“Hey, Just be yourself, and let go of your ego.” Well, that’s great, but what if being himself means being socially awkward, nervous and quite sitting in the corner of the room. Fuck that. I say strive to be yourself. Be yourself in that you are true to your CORE VALUES, whatever those core values are.


The “Just Feel good” advice does not help a guy become interesting, fun, and engaging. It does not help him develop balls, nor does it help him learn to flirt with women and enjoy witty repartee.  It’s not that guys cannot be helped.  It’s that they’re given terrible advice.

If YOU find yourself stuck in the same place while you’re spinning your wheels going nowhere then start from the basics. It’s You need to be committed to work on 2 areas:

  • *Social Skills  (Developing the proper Attributes, and social skills, Ability to vibe, ability to Flirt.)
  • *Confidence of the self and social situations. (Eradicating anxiety, finding sense of self-worth)

A good place to start developing the CORE Skills you’ll need forever, beyond ANY quick fixes:

http://www.attractwomenanywhere.com/audiocourse.shtml

Regardless of whether you seek dating advice from me or someone else, you ought to have an overall roadmap on how you’re going to get there.  Focusing on the 2 areas I’ve mentioned here is a good start.  My goal with this post is to provide you with a bird’s eye (Macro) view of the that roadmap.

16 Comments

  1. Konrad

    Some of the stuff you write is pretty insightful, but this post that this feeling of everything having been said before.

    The breakdown of the different types of false-hope schools of seduction was great, however.

    The beginning part where you drop the insight about how social skills and getting over anxiety is the real key just comes off like you’ve been reading Sinn’s Game Acceleration Doctrine, or that datinggroundwork.com guy, though.

  2. The breakdown of teachers in the seduction community is priceless.

  3. LOL, great article man! I totally agree but personally I think the main reason why people don’t get good is because getting good takes a fucking hell of a lot of effort and you really have to be willing to take a lot of pain in order to get through it.

    Most people don’t know what it takes to get good at things. They bought a guitar when they were 15 and gave up when they couldn’t just play it. They went to self defence classes but gave up when they couldn’t do fancy kicks after a month.

    Of course they could do it, but some low level habits in their mind have to be changed or broken before they could. I’m not sure anyone could do that for them in a weekend though

  4. Hey connor,

    Agreed on that as well. It’s why the magic-pill advice sells so well, be it in the weight loss arena or the dating market. People don’t want to put the effort in.

    Sometimes they DO want to put forth the effort but are just given bad information.

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    Konrad, that’s probably because Sinn and I see eye to eye on a lot of the issues surrounding this community and the way guys are taught.

    take care
    Cameron

  5. Blob Junior

    I like how you dis everyone giving dating advice, but then you shamelessly promote yourself at the end without any explanation of why you’re any better. Cool.

  6. If you read the article a 2nd time, you’ll see Red highlights pointing out to which areas men need to work on, and also what they need to avoid. If you read even more carefully, you’ll even see mentioned various names of Dating Coaches who are good at what they do.

    I am sorry that you have issues with reading comprehension, but I am fully confident that if you read the article 3 or 4 times, you will finally get it.

    Thank you for caring,
    Cameron

  7. Thank you for writing this… and your humor is right on. A serious note though, I know you are here partly to help others.

    The reality is that men who continue to lack social skills mean one thing, they are genetic by-products and they, hopefully, will not reproduce.

    Many community dudes are just gay, as in Catholic priesthood gay. The community is the best place to hide among other men. I have met enough to recognize them for what they are. There’s nothing wrong to be gay, but to hide within the community and use other naive men is simply unconscionable.

    Good luck and keep up with your blog.

  8. Hey caller #9,

    Thanks for the good words on the Blog. I am glad you’re enjoying it.

    As for the genetic by-products: That’s a slippery slope if you start seeing things that way. (It’s sort of the way Nazis saw things…) On the same token, I can agree that in today’s society in general, the lower the IQ of the people, the more kids they seem to pop out. Highly intelligent people don’t reproduce very much. (Basically, the plot for the movie “Idiocracy” if you’ve seen it.

    Going by that same premise, most of the guys who find the seduction-community ARE SMART PEOPLE. They’re not stupid or dumb. They just need to develop better their social skills and gain more confidence.

    As for the gay issue- I agree with you: I think a good 20% of the guys who seek dating advice ARE actually gay and they’re in deniable about it. A few of those guys are Seduction-Teachers, in my opinion. Their lives will improve once they admit to themselves what and who they are and move on. Trying to cloak oneself in the “How to Attract Women” realm is not going to bring those particular guys any happiness.

  9. Guto

    I think the concept of “progress” should be more flexible. I am 31 years old and I’ve been in the “community” for around a year and until recently I believed I had made no “progress”. I still can’t get over AA and approach consistently, I don’t pull hot chicks left and right.

    But recently I’ve reflected more carefully on my journey and how far I have come. I came from a place of extreme social anxiety and awkwardness and today I am much more outgoing and relaxed in general, I keep hearing how much I’ve changed.

    Frustrated and worn out from going out 3 to 4 times a week I decided to take some time off. I ended up meeting a beatifull, fantastic, intelligent and successfull woman through a social networking site. We dont live in the same city but when she came over to visit her parents we went out, had a great time and had sex. We are now good friends and spend hours chatting on msn, she admires and likes me very much but I dont know if she wants a relationship.

    So what I learned from all this is that I’ve come a very long way from the man I was when I first read “the game”. Yes I’ve been through all kinds of material and I’ve made a fool of myself a few times too. But I am pretty sure I would definately never have met, befriended and layd such an amazing woman if I still held on to the beliefs I had before joining the community. She is easily the hotest and most interesting woman I have laid. I can say for sure I am a better man today who is able to relax, project confidence and act uppon my desires when a woman shows interest.

    I am not even close to being a pickup artist, but I can read the “social matrix” much better than before, have been getting laid and making out more than ever and I believe I will keep on improving, though it will take much longer than most since I still have a lot to work on.

    In the end I also realized that the biggest thing I can do for my game right now is to improve my lifestyle and get in shape to improve my self worth which will help me get over AA. I have also realized that I was needy and obsessed with getting a woman so I could feel good about myself.

    I think many people join the community with exagerated expectations like I did and get frustrated quickly. I see this as a life-time path and I’m sure I will keep on improving and getting more lays with hotter and hotter women. I dont see myself dropping out soon or achieving my goal anytime soon either. I am still young and by the time im 35, I’m sure I’ll be getting laid like a rockstar ;)

    By the way, I really like your blog. Keep it up and thank you!

  10. As a woman first I have to say this is a great blog post.

    Second, after working with hundreds of men over the years to help them learn what it takes to seduce and attract a woman, I know the theories listed above to be true. This is an issue we see everyday at The Wing Girl Method.

    Social anxiety and discomfort is the root of the issue for both men and women.

    I myself used to have extreme social anxiety and I have pushed myself to overcome this. It was not an easy process but it is one that I know teach men from all over the world how to do. It requires practice and determination and power of the mind.

    A lot of men that I work with are so uncomfortable and anxious that they are not even ready to hear about any of the methods available to them to attract women.

    Before starting to work with others, i feel you really need to work on yourself.

    Women are attracted to self assured men who are comfortable in their own skin. If you live in your head 95% of the time this can be a challenge.

    One piece of advice that I can offer is to go out there and push yourself to interact with people. Not women but people. Say hi. Ask the time. Ask them questions. Whatever you are comfortable with but push yourself.

    These people are strangers and you will most likely never see them again so use them to help you grow.

    See how people respond. How they behave and notice that they are just as uncomfortable as you. People are uncomfortable. Fact.

    It is the people who are able to calm and control this discomfort that are truly successful.

    Again amazing post.

    Marni
    The Wing Girl Method

  11. Karen

    As a woman who works with men and woman on life issues as well as business issues, I agree that mastery of social skills is key to success in many areas of life. However, it’s been my experience that the few gems of advice in “the community” are buried under a sludge of misconceptions about women, relationships and some unhealthy hero worship and thinly veiled homosexuality. True there’s nothing wrong with a happy, healthy gay person–but men who spend way too much time sharing the details of their sex lives in a single sex and secret “lair” are just not normal. Lastly men (like women) are all unique and casual sex is not always a good idea for them–believe it or not there are men who really desire long-term relationships and marriage. The character of the material out there seems to be changing and I hope “the community” is growing up.

  12. Wantingthetruth

    Who specifically are the gay seduction teachers? JDOG and Herbal definitely come across as little gay boys fo shizzle

  13. tkip

    I have to admit that I suffer from social anxiety and had a horrific mother that raised me.

    So, to this day I have trouble approaching women and making things work with them. I’m currently in therapy but to be honest, my problems are just too deep to ever really fix.

    That means I’m always going to suffer from anxiety and depression and having trouble with relationships.

    Not sure where this leaves me. But one thing is certain. Women won’t touch me with a 10 foot pole.

    They can smell from a mile away that I have issues.

  14. Aghgh, sorry to hear that you’re struggling, man.

    “Problems being too deep to ever fix” is a really negative belief, but sometimes, when you’re down in the dumps, it does feel that way.

    Just remember the statement you just made is an EMOTION. It’s not fact or anything that’s based on reason. I know that this may not mean much right now, but you’ll get around to it eventually. Emotions will pass. Hang tough.

    You’re working on improving yourself and that’s part of the process.

    Be sure to read this post, and definitely, make sure you watch the Rocky Clip at the bottom. I think it’ll give you much more perspective in 2 minutes than a lot of self-help books could ever do….

    http://attractwomenanywhere.com/blog/2009/02/28/strengthening-your-inner-game/

    I have a post on coming up about Purpose and Identity next week. I think you’ll benefit from that as well.

    Take care
    Cameron

  15. Petr

    Cheers tkip,

    I’ve been through this too. I needed to take quite dramatic actions to fix that – quit a job, left part of my social circle, started socializing more, began to search for my life purpose… I guess women are not the issue, relationship itself won’t make you happy anyway, although now you may feel that it would.

    Nothing new, I know. But not bad to repeat either.

    Take care
    P.

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