How to be a Challenge to Women
.
I received a question about a guy wanting to know how he can be a “challenge” while he is being direct with women. Fred wrote:
literally all girls say they like a Challenge. now if a guy uses direct day game like “you looked adorable,” how Can a guy demonstrate that he is a ” Challenge”? i mean showing interest and demonstratig oneself as a “prize” in the first meeting? literally all girls say “I am looking for a man who is a Challenge.” In my opinion guy is a “Challenge” only when the girl already knows him through her friends and the guy behaves disinterested.
What you’re asking about depends on a multitude of factors that affect the dynamics of the interaction. In a simple format, here are those factors:
- Context of Interaction: How are you meeting? Cold Approach or through social circles. (there is a huge difference between the two.)
- Personality of a girl. What type of girl is she? What archetype? You talking to a ambitious educated woman or a club chick who is out drinking 4 nights a week?
- What she is looking for as well.
All of those factors influence an initial approach. That’s why cold-approaching is a low percentage game. She may be looking for a boyfriend and you come in way too “playerish” and the interaction goes sour. You may present yourself as guy who has his shit together, good career, great friends, and she can’t handle it, because she is a loser really only comfortable being with another drunk loser who sells crystal meth on the side.
There are a lot of variables that come into play. I just provided a few examples. There is no holy grail of cold approaching. Understand that. It’s a percentage game, by nature. You just try to create better odds by knowing what you’re doing and a bit of social intelligence.
.
Now, with all of the above in mind, let’s talk about you wanting to be a challenge:
A. A matter of Context and Interpretation.
You have to also understand that the same sentneces has two different meanings to you and the girl. You are looking to get laid! You’re looking to stick your penis in her vagina. Let’s be honest here. So a challenge to you is getting her pants off. When she means a challenge, typically it’s not about sex. If she is attractive, she knows that if she takes her pants off, 90% of men would jump at the opportunity. Even if she weren’t attractive, that’d still hold true.
So you have to redefine challenge from her perspective. What she means is a guy who isn’t easy to get, swooning all over her, and trying to kiss her ass. Basically, a guy who has options of different women, so she feels like she got the prize by getting such a man who has so many options.
.
B. Being a Challenge is Not Something You Fake, It’s Something You Are.
This analogy will make it crystal clear for ya: In the world of NBA Basketball, Lebron James is going to be a free agent this coming summer. [In case you have no idea about sports, a “Free Agent” indicates that a player can sign a contract with any team he wishes.] Considering his talent and age, he is the hottest commodity in all of basketball. Every basketball team will want him to play for them. He can only play for 1 team! Which team will land him?
Therefore getting Lebron James to play for your team is a challenge. Why? Because he has lots of options. He is not desperate or needy.
.
And by the way, “Awww, you look so adorable” is not really direct game. It’s more like someone trying to come across as slick and smooth after reading (crappy) advice on the Internet. Direct game has to be sincere and unless you’re saying that line from a place of some sincerity, it’s more “Gamey” and she’ll know it.
Here is a 9-series of articles I wrote explaining Direct-Game: http://attractwomenanywhere.com/blog/2009/05/07/definitive-analysis-of-approaching-women-directly/
Lastly, here is what it comes down to pay very careful attention to what I am about to say: There are two schools of thought on how to become more attractive to women:
1. Learn the correct sequence of tactics and social manipulations
2. Actually become a more attractive person.
I subscribe to the latter school, and consequently, what I teach indicates that. You can either learn proper manipulations and sometimes those will even work in the short term, but you’ll be exposed in the long term.
Or you can choose to become someone who has a high self-image, is interesting, engaging, and socially fun to talk with. If you are the latter, then by default, you are a bit of a challenge because you have options and women know that. Again, we are back to that sports analogy. The super-star free agent athlete is not desperate because he has option. If you have options, you’re not desperate either, and your demeanor indicates that.
So will a girl think you’re a challenge?
If she thinks you are a guy who is in demand by other women, you’re naturally a challenge. And girls can sense intuitively if you’re a guy who has options. Sometimes the mere fact that you’re able to flirt with them, smile, and be at complete ease around them without a smidgeon of nervousness communicates to women that you’re someone who can get it.
How will show know you’re a prize? Because you carry yourself like a motherf**kin’ prize!
Really, that’s the answer. I just went the long way in explaining it.
Take care
Cameron
PS. The articles on this blog will have a profound impact on your dating life. Please realize that they are supplementary material to what I discuss in my expanded work. Get a copy of my Ebook here: Building Attraction with Women
Speaking of direct “game” there are couple questions I’d like to ask.
Compliment is not direct “opener” cuz it is not necessarily sincere? You mentioned that “u r so adorable” is not direct game. Does it depend on whether u actually mean that, and if u don’t then it is playerish?
I recently read a book “Mode One” by Alan Roger Currie. If u have read it, I’d very appreciate what u think about it. I think Alan is taking it a little too far. Not sure if his advice is actually applicable in normal society. :)
Hey Mike,
The question was asked about direct-DAY-game which means approaching women during normal activities, (Supermarket, coffee shop, etc.)
“Awww, You are so adorable” is not really a compliment and nor is it all that sincere. More ofen than not, it’s going to come across as a cheesy pick up line. Think of it from her perspective as well. Walking through the supermarket, a guy pops up and says, “Aww, you’re so adorable.”
What’s she to think? “Wow, the man of my dreams!” There is not a lot to work with there.
I have heard that Roger’s name mentioned here and there, but I have not read his book. I can’t really provide any feedback on it.
If you read my 9-part series on Direct,(free on this site blog), you’ll find it’ll clarify the issue for you a lot more. A Direct-approach is one way, and it has its places. However,it’s not the only way.
Cameron
Thanks man.
Of course direct is not the only way, I am just personally not interested in female opinion on topic I don’t care about. :) But I see how it is one of good ways in that it is not weird or creepy, like NLP, patterning or seductive reasoning.
Regarding Roger, it is basically speaking your intentions to the girl upfront. In an X-rated manner it could actually be [to the girl] “I’d like to see u bend over” :) If that what a guy is thinking then that would be his X-rated “Mode One”.
And the guy says that in his first interaction with the girl, maybe even the first 5-10 min. Also Roger does this during day game.
While I like being direct with my intentions (personal preference), I am thinking this is maybe too much too soon?
I used to do direct game in the clubs. And the paradox is that, you may spurt a line like “You’re so adorable” or “I want to meet you” etc… and it’s just that: Another line. Because in essence, you are not really being sincere. You’re just spitting another line. I mean think about, “What about her is so adorable?” You don’t know her and she don’t know you.
The irony in meeting women especially in clubs is that us guys think we have to do so much work. But the reality is that they will have us pegged the minute we open our mouths. What you say, in conjunction with your attitude, will let them know if you’re a “Player”, “Regular Guy” or a “Dumbass.” And thus, this is where the problem arises.
Quoting Cameron Teone,
Or she could also be a great woman that has recently been hurt by a breakup and doesn’t care if she’s with a player because she misses those exciting things or an ex-party girl who is now tired of the players. In the club, you will never really know. And that’s why, it is a high percentage game.
And here is another unknown truth, most players that are good at clubs, know who to pick (which by the way, usually end up being party chicks whom they meet after 2am and are sometimes fat and nasty), don’t use cheesy lines, and they as hell for sure don’t think about being sincere.
I’ve used Mode One, Pickup101, BadBoy, and Shark opening tactics before (i’ve tried them all) and I can tell you, consistently opening with direct or so-called “sincere” openings and getting laid is just a fantasy. I’ve never done it and I’ve never met anyone who can do it on a consistent basis also.
And believe me, I tried it for awhile and gave it a chance. But, all it gets you is getting pegged as the player wolf who hangs out late at night every weekend.
I also worked as a bartender at Señor Frog’s here in Puerto Rico and in many other bars and have also hung out with the best players of San Juan, so I can attest to you, that I have observed them and my customers with a keen objective eye as possible and I have never met or seen any of them consistently open with “direct” openers and get laid at a night club. It is a high numbers game.
And that’s why I call bullshit on all of those guys who preach Direct as the best way. In some cases, it may work. But in most cases it will just leave you with a fantasy.
Cameron, I enjoy reading all your posts. I’ve used them to reaffirm what I have experienced and seen and not just to regurgitate what I have read in an e-book. Great shit, man!!
Mike, it seems as though you’re looking at it as a pendulum that swings to opposite directions: Either be super-direct, or ask for an opinion opener.
Most initial approaches will fall somewhere in between. You want to know what my most commonly used “Opener” is? You ready for this???????????
(Drum roll……)
“How is your night going?”
Yep. Not flashy, boring, chill, casual, take it or leave it, I’m just starting conversation.
It’s not the only “Opener”, but probably (& Currently) my most often used. It’s simple, easy, and gets the conversation started and then I can take it where I want from there. Or sometimes, can’t get a good vibe established. If there is no chemistry, then I leave.
As for telling girls that you want to bend them over: Not proud to admit it publicly but I’ve done it, but it’s like a surgical strike. You have to have the right timing. You’re looking at the right situation, the proper context, and the right type of girl, before you blurt out something like that. It’s a concept I call “Pushing in all of your chips” but I have been hesitant to write about it. Maybe I’ll do a blog post about it.
As for as just being blatantly graphic with girls, and telling them what your thoughts are, well…..
Let’s put it this way: It’s “Urban game.” It works in a certain subculture, with a certain demographic. It’s different mode of communication within a different SUBCULTURE. (Are you grasping what I’m saying here?)
Once again, we’re back to the issue of demographics and archetypes. Certain girls respond to that type of behavior. Question is: Are those the type you want? Are you meeting girls in “Urban” milieus?
—————————-
Charlie V,
Good points. I feel like I should do a new blog post just reply to your comment. It’d take too long to describe in the comments section.
Take care
Cameron
I would generally consider “direct game” a fail. UNLESS you are a famous rockstar or actor.
Just walking up to a girl and saying “hello” is direct enough. She knows that you approached because of her beauty and that you want her. (At least that will be her assumption 99% of the time.) If you approach with a heavy neg, then most of the time she’ll just think your a dick.
Women appreciate a guy with some social savvy. As a friend once told me, “I know the guy is talking to me because he wants me. I might even go home with him, but heck, make it fun for me. Lets “play” a bit, some verbal sparring, a little teasing, etc. Keep it interesting. Don’t be a pushover, don’t be a jerk. Make it FUN for me to flirt with you.” In a way, this reminds me a bit of the old “cat string” theory.
If you walk up to a girl and say, “I want you” its boring for her. If you walk up to a girl with a bit of a twinkle in your eye, smile, say hello, and “have a clue”, she still knows that you want her, but now the game is afoot (in a good way) and she will have fun engaging in you.
Think about it. How fun is it playing tennis (or other sport) against someone who completely sucks. Even if you know you can win, don’t you like a bit of a volley, some excitement, working a bit for your win??
A great line from an old move. Two business men are planning a golf-game/meeting, “This time I’ll make it harder for you let me win.”
Flirting is that art of saying “maybe”…
-DV
Thanks Cameron,
I actually don’t usually do super-direct game :)
Most of times what I do is a variation of “I’d like to meet u” to “I think u r cute”. [If I actually mean that, if I don’t think she is cute, I’ll not approach]. Or I could just say Hi and go from there.
But in direct forums there is certain buzz around that book “Mode One”. Guys are saying it is THE system to follow, the best thing out there.
I asked cuz I was curious what u thought.
What u say makes sense that it should be used in certain context. Regarding indirect, I don’t dislike the method, but I do dislike the persona of teachers Style and Mystery and I did take a bootcamp with Mystery a year back.
While I do recognize it works, there are little details here and there I don’t like.
Jus’t because you’re showing “interest” doesn’t mean you’re hooked.If you have stellar body language and demonstrate that you are a really cool guy then she will still have to work for you. Just because you showed interest she knows that you’re not automatically hooked. Your high status should convey that you’re a challenge
Hey Cam you think you can write up a blog post on social circle game. There really isn’t any good advice on this out there(probably because its the most normal way to meet women)The advice that is out there is all “BE THE LIFE OF THE PARTY” or “BE THE GUY EVERYONE WANTS TO BE AROUND” etc etc. which is retarded cuz if we were like that we wouldn’t be looking for help. Anyways a few helpful hints would be greatly appreciated.
Hey Shifty,
That’s a good question. Let me think about that one. I understand where you’re coming from. Not everyone is going to be the “Life of the Party” person.
I’ve always been naturally extraverted so I’ve never considered hanging with a social-circle as a “game.” I’ll have to sort of backwards engineer the process.
A lot of social circle game comes down to individual ability to vibe and conversational skills. If you sign up to my newsletter, you’ll get the 3 free PDFs on “Natural Conversational Flow.” It’s some of the best and most practical stuff I’ve written.
You should definitely read those 3 PDFs.
Cameron
Ps. It’d also help me answer the question better if you could make the question more specific, as in where are you getting stuck? What would you want to improve?
Dino,
That’s a pretty strong generalization. “Direct game” is not a FAIL and does not require you to be a rockstar or anyone famous. It has worked for me and it has worked for other non-famous guys. I’ve seen it working countless times. I’ve also seen it failing countless times, as I’ve seen any type of “game” failing countless times. Sure, we can argue when it’s most appropriate, for who it’s most appropriate and whatnot.
Please don’t go around making sweeping generalizations based on some theory without having the experience to back it up.
Hey Cam,
I guess what I’m really asking is how can I going from the shy guy to the social attractive guy in a social circle situation like a house party or just meeting friends of friends kinda of thing. For me anytime Im in those situations I kind of hang back with the people I know, maybe say hi to few people I don’t know, chit chat a bit nothing exciting. Id just like to know what I can do to change that.
Mojito,
But, I DO have the experience. Working in nightclubs 5 nights a week for 10 years means I’ve spent about 2500 nights in a club observing and practicing game. (I also get to hear stories from female staff, guests and friends about all the ways guys try to pick them up.)
Sure, any technique will work some of the time. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. My point was that direct game has an extremely low chance of working. I’ve seen it fail 99 times out of 100.
Dino,
Well, it seems that you do have the experience indeed. I wonder if the differences in perception have to do with the place as well?
One thing I definitely don’t agree with your theory is that if you walk to a woman and say “I want you” (though I wouldn’t say that unless I was trying to just be sexual with her) it’s boring for her. Few guys have the balls to do that and I’ve asked quite a few girls how many times they’ve been approached “direct”. Answer is always many times by drunk or creepy guys. Few times by sober, cool, decent guys.
I certainly had more than 99 out of 100 success with direct. Actually, the 3 most beautiful girls I’ve dated in my life I approached with some form of direct opener. Now, I have gotten really bad reactions as well, where I’m immediately put in the player or sleazy category. So I tend to prefer smoother openers (like something about the situation or a lower key compliment) nowadays as they don’t bomb as hard and one can easily get a little bit more intense from there. Eventually I came to realize that how you start the conversation is not really that important once you reach a certain level of comfort with flirting and bantering around with girls.
For the record, I’ve taken workshops with both Badboy and Shark (Ranko). I’ve seen this working for some of their students as well, and failing for a whole bunch of others. It failed a lot for me before I realized that I really needed to back up the opener with more flirting and having the rest of my act together (thanks Cameron for helping me fully realize that!).
In the summer I saw a few guys getting laid in a summer party place by being ultra hardcore direct, a la mode one. Sure, not super pretty or smart girls, but heck, it works.
Also, my perception is that East European women are generally more comfortable with being approached in a direct manner than other European women.